Below is a complete transcript of entries from the live blog event Authers Notes on Anatomy of the Bear in the order they were originally posted.
03/03 10:35 ET
Welcome to Authers Notes, our Bloomberg book club. Today, senior markets editor John Authers will lead a conversation about Russell Napiers cult classic from 2005, Anatomy of the Bear: Lessons From Wall Streets Four Great Bottoms.
This event will start on Tuesday, March 3, at 11:30 a.m. New York time. Join us then as John discusses the book with his guests.
Andrew Dunn TOPLive Editor
03/03 11:31 ET
Professor Napier, who joins us today, is author of The Solid Ground investment report for institutional investors and co-founder of the investment research portal ERIC -- a business he now co-owns with D.C. Thomson.
Russell has worked in the investment business for 30 years and has been advising global institutional investors on asset allocation since 1995. Russell is founder and course director of The Practical History of Financial Markets course, part of the Edinburgh Business School MBA.
A director of the Mid Wynd International Investment Trust, he is a member of the Investment advisory committees of Cerno Capital and Kennox Asset Management.
Andrew Dunn TOPLive Editor
03/03 11:32 ET
In 2014, Russell founded the charitable venture The Library of Mistakes a business and financial history library in Edinburgh that now has branches in India and Switzerland.
Russell has degrees in law from Queens University Belfast and Magdalene College Cambridge. He is a Fellow of the CFA Society of the U.K. and is an honorary professor at both Heriot-Watt University and the University of Stirling. When not engaged in the activities above Russell reads too much financial history, is a keen fly fisherman and grows his own organic vegetables.
Andrew Dunn TOPLive Editor
03/03 11:33 ET
Napiers Anatomy of the Bear, for those who have not had the chance to read it during the excitement of the last few weeks, is a cult classic work of investment history. He spent two years in the archives to see exactly what people were talking about, and what news they were reading, in the weeks around the bottom of the four great bear markets of the 20th century -- in 1921, 1932, 1949 and 1982.
His conclusions were that deflationary pressure helps to force bear markets, in combination with overvaluation of stocks. The bottom comes not in catharsis and revulsion, but rather when all hope has been lost and apathy reigns.
John Authers Senior Editor
03/03 11:33 ET
The first edition of Anatomy of the Bear accurately told readers not to trust the rally that followed the bursting of the dot com bubble, and warned that another sell-off lay ahead. That was proved right. Subsequent editions said that March 2009 was not a bear market bottom to match the four covered in the market, and many now argue that he has been proved wrong on this.
I saw the book on the desks of many a fund manager during the years before and after the crisis. With markets now in their scariest state since 2008-09, it is a great time to return to it.
John Authers Senior Editor
03/03 11:35 ET
Greetings, Russell. The first question we were planning to ask was a simple one, from Cross-Asset reporter Sara Ponczek:
Where do we stand now? Is there a period thats most comparable to our current situation?
After the events of the last few hours, I suppose by that we now mean: Is there a period remotely comparable to one where the Federal Reserve has made an emergency cut of 50bps, bringing 10-year Treasury yields to an all-time low, barely two weeks after the S&P 500 hit an all-time high?
Lets start by trying to locate exactly where we are, and what long-term effect the Feds action might have.
John Authers Senior Editor
03/03 11:35 ET
There is one dramatic period that looks like this -- October 1929. Clearly, the decline in the stock market on that famous day was much bigger than what we have seen in the past 10 days, but the Fed cut the day of the big deadline.
Despite that very large decline in the equity bear market, they were still at very high PE ratios when that cut came.
Russell Napier Author, Anatomy of the Bear
03/03 11:38 ET
That raises one big question: The Fed has been greatly criticized for its policies between 1929 and 1932, and it started with rates considerably higher.
What should the Fed do now to avoid a similar outcome? (For asset prices, or for the economy).
John Authers Senior Editor
03/03 11:44 ET
The book suggests that it is deflation that destroys equity valuations as it pushes cash flows and asset prices lower and, thus the risk of equity eradication rises.
Bernanke famously gave a concise speech on November 2002 on what the Fed could and should do. They have not been through all that playbook yet, but essentially they need to boost the growth in broad money -- and this is something that have failed to do with their extraordinary monetary policy.
Things are much worse elsewhere, especially in Europe, where they have got to the situation that Bernanke warned a central bank should never get to: zero interest rates and falling inflation or deflation.
I would recommend freeing up banks to buy a lot more securities and thus create money this way. However, outside the U.S. they will probably be more tempted by helicopter money.
Russell Napier Author, Anatomy of the Bear
03/03 11:46 ET
Its still only a couple of weeks since the S&P 500 hit a new high, and that leads to this question from old friend Dec Mullarkey of SLC Management in Boston:
Lofty valuations alone have generally been a poor market timing indicator. It seems you also need investor euphoria to really drive a bull market.
During the last twelve S&P 500 bull markets, returns leading up to the peak were, on average, 58% over the prior two years and 25% over the prior year. Suggesting bull markets end with a bang and not a whimper.
Do most investors get captured by momentum that in turn fuels the overshoot and downturn? Or is this some aggressive price discovery where investors keep pushing until they eventually find the break point?
Or, put briefly, was the buying we saw in February the final melt-up to a bear market top?
John Authers Senior Editor
03/03 11:48 ET
There are two ways valuations can fall -- driven by inflation and higher interest rates or driven by deflation.
The book points out that some of our bear markets last a very long time indeed, such as 1901-1921 and 1968-1982. These market valuations declined primarily because inflation and interest rates went higher and it was difficult to stop that, even over many cycles.
However, all ended with the risk of deflation as the central bankers got over-aggressive against inflation. The key outlier was 1929, when we went straight to deflation without first going through a long bear market associated with the battle against inflation.
Today, it is very clearly a deflationary shock we face, so valuations can fall very quickly. This happened in 1921, 1932, 1949 and even in 1982 given the U.S. banks were in crisis.
Deflation brings valuations down, full stop, but to stress: Things are much much worse in Europe where valuations are a lot lower.
Russell Napier Author, Anatomy of the Bear
03/03 11:51 ET
Following on the theme of cognitive dissonance, as bond yields hit record lows just after stocks hit record highs, we have this question from Tamas Vojnits, former chief economist of OTP Bank in Budapest:
I dont think, and indeed portfolio theory suggests, that one can evaluate asset class valuations separately, reduced to only one asset class.
For a long time now, rising equity values have been supported by declining and very low long term yields (negative real yields).
Is it possible that we have two equilibriums, one described by ultra low risk free rates coupled with high equity valuations and another with normal interest rates coupled with much lower equity market valuations?
Fundamentals aside, is it possible that we cannot get from one (the first) equilibrium to the other (the latter) without a major equity market disruption and therefore we are stuck at a sub-optimal equilibrium?
John Authers Senior Editor
03/03 11:54 ET
Can we reconcile record low interest rates with economic growth but more importantly stable household and corporate cash flows and asset prices?
Clearly, this is something the equity market has reconciled itself to and with some justification based on the past 10 years of lower long-term bond yields but decent growth and corporate earnings.
However, it is highly unlikely that the two can ultimately be reconciled, even in an age when the long-term bond yield is depressed by central bank actions. The book covers how technological innovation often creates the illusion that the new economy can be a combination of high growth and record low interest rates. It has never lasted, and all the major high valuations coincided with such a belief.
As discussed, the money and credit analysis this time suggests that the dissonance is believing that bond yields go ever lower but growth does not. So for me its a deflation shock with valuations falling quickly. However, history shows the dissonance can be that the technology is not as deflationary as the market thinks, and inflation -- often assisted by monetary policy -- erupts.
In that case valuations for equities fall much more slowly.
Russell Napier Author, Anatomy of the Bear
03/03 11:54 ET
Im sure everyone is aware by now, but just to reiterate, the Federal Reserve just cut rates by 50bps this morning in an emergency move.
It was the first of the sort since 2008. Ten-year Treasury yields are now trading at 1.03% with the two-year yielding 74bps.
Pretty amazing.
Sarah Ponczek Cross Asset Reporter
03/03 11:55 ET
Even if this is a bear market rally, cant investors enjoy and profit off of it?
Whats the best way to go about that, while still being prepared for pressure that will push equities to levels associated with the bear market bottoms of 1921, 1932, 1949 and 1982, as you see it?
Sarah Ponczek Cross Asset Reporter
03/03 12:01 ET
I was lucky enough to call the bottom of the equity market in 1Q 2009, even though I still do not think that was a great bear market bottom -- valuations were too high. What I looked at on that occasion was: commodity prices, TIPS-indicated inflation, the copper price and corporate bond spreads. If the Fed is successfully staving off deflation, we would expect that to be reflected in these indicators. They were lead indicators at our great bottoms and also in 2009.
So that might be the basis for trading equities but to stress: The key deflationary forces in the world are far from U.S. Shores, and the ability of the Fed to pivot the world on one interest rate move has to be in doubt.
I noted that after the emergency rate cut, copper is still down. Watch those indicators, but fundamentally equity valuations are high and this prospect is for deflation -- a dangerous time to trade equities for a bull market rally.
Russell Napier Author, Anatomy of the Bear
03/03 12:02 ET
(Incidentally Sarah, pretty amazing is how Lady Diana responded when asked what her first impressions of Prince Charles were, at the press conference where they announced their engagement.
So much going on this morning and I suddenly get an echo of a news event from my British youth....)
John Authers Senior Editor
03/03 12:02 ET
Russell mentioned that copper is still down today, even after that emergency rate cut. And not only is that true, copper prices have been falling precipitously ever since mid-2018. See for yourself:
Sarah Ponczek Cross Asset Reporter
03/03 12:03 ET
Lets move to the question of valuation. Reader Gordon Graham raises an issue that has been very controversial in recent years:
What does Russell think of the cyclically adjusted price earnings multiple (CAPE)?
For context, Yale Universitys Robert Shiller famously used the CAPE in 1999 to predict the bursting of the dot-com bubble, while Russells first edition of Anatomy used CAPE valuations to show that another big fall in share prices lay ahead.
In the years since, CAPE has continued to show that the market is too expensive, yet the S&P 500 keeps rising. Is there something wrong with the indicator (which compares prices to a 10-year average of real earnings), or with Tobins q, which compares prices to the replacement value of a companys assets?
Graham handily provides this link to a page on Andrew Smitherss website, which shows the latest measures of CAPE and q.
John Authers Senior Editor
03/03 12:07 ET
There is nothing wrong with CAPE and q as indicators of value, but we have lived in really exceptional times.
Go here to read the rest:
Authers Notes on Anatomy of the Bear: TOPLive Transcript - Bloomberg
- Isaiah Washington Says Sandra Oh Brought Him Back on Greys Anatomy Years After Firing - E! Online - April 27th, 2025 [April 27th, 2025]
- Hailey Bieber Is Outed as an Obsessive 'Greys Anatomy' Fan: It's 'a Big Secret' - People.com - April 27th, 2025 [April 27th, 2025]
- Unfurling Anatomy explores neuroplasticity and healing through artistic expression - 13wham.com - April 27th, 2025 [April 27th, 2025]
- Why isnt Greys Anatomy on TV tonight? When is the next new episode? - PennLive.com - April 27th, 2025 [April 27th, 2025]
- Why Greys Anatomy Isnt Airing a New Episode Tonight (April 24) & When Itll Return - Just Jared - April 27th, 2025 [April 27th, 2025]
- Greys Anatomy season 21 new episode tonight - How to watch on ABC for free - MassLive - April 27th, 2025 [April 27th, 2025]
- Anatomy of a US Treasury Sell-Off - AllianceBernstein - Commentaries - Advisor Perspectives - April 27th, 2025 [April 27th, 2025]
- Anatomy Of Lies Documentary: Everything To Know About The Grey's Anatomy Writer Who Faked Cancer (& Where To Watch Online) - Screen Rant - April 27th, 2025 [April 27th, 2025]
- 'Greys Anatomy' Star Katherine Heigl Slammed With Lawsuit For Alleged $300,000 Unpaid Services - Yahoo - April 27th, 2025 [April 27th, 2025]
- Grey's Anatomy's Isaiah Washington Says Sandra Oh Brought Him Back After Altercation with Patrick Dempsey - E! Online - April 27th, 2025 [April 27th, 2025]
- Why Arent 9-1-1, Doctor Odyssey & Greys Anatomy New Tonight? - The Sanford Herald - April 27th, 2025 [April 27th, 2025]
- 'Grey's Anatomy' Teases a Winston/Jules Pairing: Are You Feeling It? - TVLine - April 27th, 2025 [April 27th, 2025]
- Anatomy of a PMs fall: did Albanese stumble off a stage - and why are we still talking about it? - The Guardian - April 27th, 2025 [April 27th, 2025]
- Anatomy Of A Bitcoin Bear Market: Expert Trader Reveals The Signals To Watch Out For | Bitcoinist.com - Bitcoinist.com - April 19th, 2025 [April 19th, 2025]
- 'Grey's Anatomy' Recap: Are Winston Ndugu and Jules Millin the Next Power Couple at Grey-Sloan? - TV Insider - April 19th, 2025 [April 19th, 2025]
- Greys Anatomy Taps Piper Perabo for Three-Episode Arc Whats Her Connection to Amelia? - TVLine - April 19th, 2025 [April 19th, 2025]
- The anatomy of an NPR headline - VPM - April 19th, 2025 [April 19th, 2025]
- Anatomy of the system: Criminal case is finally (almost) over - nrtoday.com - April 19th, 2025 [April 19th, 2025]
- Grey's Anatomy Season 21, Episode 15 Review: Im Glad The Characters Are Showing Off Their Silly Sides In The Shows Funniest Episode In A Long Time -... - April 19th, 2025 [April 19th, 2025]
- Jessie Buckley to Narrate Leah Hazards Novel The Anatomy of Us for Audible (EXCLUSIVE) - Variety - April 19th, 2025 [April 19th, 2025]
- Ellen Pompeo reveals why shell never leave Greys Anatomy for good: It doesnt make any sense - New York Post - April 19th, 2025 [April 19th, 2025]
- Greys Anatomy season 21 episode 15: Where to watch free tonight - MassLive - April 19th, 2025 [April 19th, 2025]
- Ellen Pompeo says leaving 'Grey's Anatomy' would mean that others get to 'profit' off her hard work - Business Insider - April 19th, 2025 [April 19th, 2025]
- Ellen Pompeo on Why It Would Make No Sense to Walk Away From Greys Anatomy - Rolling Stone - April 19th, 2025 [April 19th, 2025]
- In the Human Anatomy Lab, Experiential Learning Prepares Future Health Care Leaders - U of G News - April 19th, 2025 [April 19th, 2025]
- Window washers platform crashes into hospital: How to watch Greys Anatomy without cable - PennLive.com - April 19th, 2025 [April 19th, 2025]
- Riley Greene, Colt Keith and the anatomy of a slump - The Athletic - The New York Times - April 19th, 2025 [April 19th, 2025]
- Ellen Pompeo reveals she gets a little bit annoyed when Greys Anatomy fans call her Meredith - The Independent - April 19th, 2025 [April 19th, 2025]
- Revisiting the 20-Year History of the Music of Greys Anatomy - Shondaland - April 19th, 2025 [April 19th, 2025]
- Yellowstone Star Piper Perabo Joins the Cast of Greys Anatomy in Recurring Role - EntertainmentNow - April 19th, 2025 [April 19th, 2025]
- Seriously? Greys Anatomy Is Making Us Take Sides, and It Feels Like [Bleep] - TVLine - April 19th, 2025 [April 19th, 2025]
- Ellen Pompeos honest reason for never leaving Greys Anatomy branded weird - The Independent - April 19th, 2025 [April 19th, 2025]
- The body as a manifesto: Schiaparellis use of anatomy - HIGHXTAR. - April 19th, 2025 [April 19th, 2025]
- Ellen Pompeo reveals one frustration with Grey's Anatomy fans: "I do get a little bit annoyed" - Digital Spy - April 19th, 2025 [April 19th, 2025]
- On Set: Greys Anatomy Stars Sharing Their Hidden Talents - Shondaland - April 19th, 2025 [April 19th, 2025]
- Anatomy of a Shot | The Gorge: Building the Blast - DNEG - April 19th, 2025 [April 19th, 2025]
- The countries with longest anatomy measurements (7+ inches) and what this means for your health - Journe Mondiale - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- 21 "Grey's Anatomy" Behind-The-Scenes Facts That'll Make You Watch The Show In A Whole New Way - BuzzFeed - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Anatomy of Exile by Zeeva Bukai reflects on the elusive nature of home - jweekly.com - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Sex toys and exploding cosmetics: Anatomy of a 'hybrid war' on the West - Reuters - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Doctor Odyssey Has Higher Ratings Than Grey's Anatomy, So Why Was It At The Risk Of Being Canceled When Shonda Rhimes' Show Was Already Renewed -... - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Anatomy of a housing proposal toppled by NIMBYs - The Portland Press Herald - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- The Anatomy of a New Distribution Branch - Roofing Contractor - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- 'Grey's Anatomy' Is Returning for Season 22: Get the Scoop - TV Insider - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Greys Anatomy: Has Owen Broken the Open Relationship Rules Already? - TV Insider - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Greys Anatomy Season 21, Episode 13 Review: Im More Excited Than Ever For The Last 5 Episodes Thanks To A Few Storyline Advancements - Screen Rant - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- 'Grey's Anatomy': Teddy Makes a Tearful Admission as She and Owen Navigate Their Open Marriage - People.com - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Greys Anatomy, Shifting Gears Among Five ABC Renewals, Doctor Odyssey in Limbo - hollywoodreporter.com - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Effect of Virtual Reality Simulation on Anatomy Learning Outcomes: A Systematic Review - Cureus - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Greys Anatomy Renewed For Season 22 By ABC With Veteran Cast Poised To Return - Deadline - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Grey's Anatomy: Kim Raver Talks Teddy and Owen's Open Marriage - Us Weekly - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Greys Anatomy: Sophia Bush Discusses Cass And Teddys Long-Awaited Tryst & Whether Theres More To Come Between Them - Deadline - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- 9-1-1, Greys Anatomy, The Rookie, Shifting Gears, Will Trent Renewed at ABC - Variety - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- 7 Times the Greys Anatomy Surgeons Did the Impossible - Shondaland - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Grey's Anatomy Is Bound To Repeat A Controversial George Plot From 18 Years Ago (But With A Twist) - Screen Rant - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Ellen Pompeo Reveals The Exact Moment Her Daughter Stopped Watching 'Grey's Anatomy' - HuffPost - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Anatomy Of A Market Crisis: Tariffs, Markets And The Economy - Seeking Alpha - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Pulse Bosses on Danny and Xanders Messy Power Dynamic, Greys Anatomy Comparisons and Season 2 Plans - Variety - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Bare Anatomy parent Innovist raises Rs 136 crore from ICICI Venture, others - The Economic Times - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- T.R. Knight Was 'Scared' to Film Meredith and George's 'Humiliating' Grey's Anatomy Sex Scene (Exclusive) - People.com - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- "Thats My Home": Ellen Pompeo Reveals Whether She Has Plans To Exit 'Grey's Anatomy' for Good - Collider - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- TVs Current Medical Dramas, Ranked: Our Diagnoses for The Pitt, Watson, Doc Greys Anatomy and More - TVLine - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Anatomy of a Market Crisis: Tariffs, Markets and the Economy - Investing.com - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Who Will Save Greys Anatomy Now That Ellen Pompeo Is Gone? - The Daily Beast - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- 19 Most Memorable (and Heart-Wrenching!) 'Grey's Anatomy' Episodes of All Time - PEOPLE - March 30th, 2025 [March 30th, 2025]
- 16 stars you forgot were on Grey's Anatomy before their big break (including future Oscar nominees) - Entertainment Weekly News - March 30th, 2025 [March 30th, 2025]
- "I Cried When He Died": Shonda Rhimes Is Still Deeply Impacted By Killing One Grey's Anatomy Character - Screen Rant - March 30th, 2025 [March 30th, 2025]
- See the Best Greys Anatomy Behind-the-Scenes Photos to Celebrate 20 Years of the Medical Drama - PEOPLE - March 30th, 2025 [March 30th, 2025]
- Katherine Heigl, Jeffrey Dean Morgan reunite to talk Grey's Anatomy , from Denny's death to ghost sex - Entertainment Weekly News - March 30th, 2025 [March 30th, 2025]
- Sandra Oh Is Changing Her Tune on a Potential Return to 'Grey's Anatomy' - PEOPLE - March 30th, 2025 [March 30th, 2025]
- The Scrapped Grey's Anatomy Spin-Off Would Have Ruined The Show's Best Characters - SlashFilm - March 30th, 2025 [March 30th, 2025]
- Anatomy of a flood: The Derna tragedys lessons for Libyan governance - Brookings Institution - March 30th, 2025 [March 30th, 2025]
- 19 Years Later, Shonda Rhimes Still Isnt Over This Greys Anatomy Death (and Neither Are We) - Collider - March 30th, 2025 [March 30th, 2025]
- The perfect palliative balm of Greys Anatomy - Financial Times - March 30th, 2025 [March 30th, 2025]
- 15 Behind-the-Scenes Facts You Didn't Know About Grey's Anatomy, 20 Years After It Premiered - MSN - March 30th, 2025 [March 30th, 2025]
- I Have Zero Endings: Shonda Rhimes Has No Idea How (or When) Greys Anatomy Will End - Collider - March 30th, 2025 [March 30th, 2025]
- My Only Allegiance Is to the Story: Shonda Rhimes Explains Why Shes Killed So Many Beloved Greys Anatomy Characters - Collider - March 30th, 2025 [March 30th, 2025]
- 'Grey's Anatomy' star Ellen Pompeo says $20 million salary brings 'true independence': 'I don't have to do anything I don't want to do' - CNBC - March 30th, 2025 [March 30th, 2025]
- 'I love your song from "Grey's Anatomy"': How the ABC medical drama's soundtrack changed these artists' musical careers - Yahoo... - March 30th, 2025 [March 30th, 2025]
- Shonda Rhimes On The 'Grey's Anatomy' & 'Scandal' Spinoffs That Never Materialized: "We Thought About A Lot Of Things" - Deadline - March 30th, 2025 [March 30th, 2025]